One of the side-effects of having to watch dross at home, emphasised dramatically again in Saturday’s first half, and occasional indifferent performances away, is having speculation about the manager’s future.
I’ve written before about Lee Clark’s future, so instead I thought I’d talk about some of our previous managers.
Speaking on internet fora, like ‘joysandsorrows.co.uk/forum‘ I have come across people who would welcome St Heve Bruce back like a shot, those who wouldn’t touch Trevor Francis with a bargepole, would VERY much like to touch (very strongly) Alex McLeish with a bargepole, and even those who would welcome back Barry Fry in a heartbeat. The poll on this site, Sunday night, had Chris Hughton with a slender lead over Steve Bruce, and Trevor Francis languishing second from bottom, just ahead – rather predictably, for a number of understandable reasons (recently appointed, recent defeat, etc) of Lee Clark.
I thought I’d look at their records.
Before research, I thought it would be obvious (!) that each of the managers would have their own ‘pulls’ and their own reasons never to let them darken our door again.
Barry Fry – Always credited with bringing the fun back to Blues. Always derided as too crazy to bring ‘true’ success to Blues, beyond the (now) League One Championship and Johnstone’s Paint Trophy.
David Gold was quoted as saying he wished he’d given ‘Bazza’ another season, so perhaps he wasn’t as bad as some would have us believe, though his lack of success subsequently at Posh, Barnet, could well confirm David Gold’s position as a nostalgic one…
Trevor Francis – Always credited (quite rightly) as a playing legend. Always derided as the one who embarrassed the club by whinging about penalties. Apparently couldn’t get on with Karen Brady. Did we need to have a ‘yes man’ at the helm? Sadly, the Board thought so, though he may well have been ‘past his sell by date’ at Blues, or ‘had taken Blues as far as they could go’. Lack of success at QPR, Crystal Palace, would suggest he may well not have brought Blues more success, given more time, though he did of course give us three subsequent play off finishes – something we’d all like to achieve this season – and ‘gave’ Steve Bruce the squad that finally achieved promotion.
Steve Bruce – Always credited (quite rightly) as the man who got Blues into the Premier League, against all the odds. Those first wins against the Vile were priceless too. Always derided as ‘Wor Brucey’, with poor tactical nous and the odd square pegs in round holes formations…
Lack of real success at Wigan or Sunderland suggest he may not have been better off staying with Blues, but then he’s doing better with Hull than Lee Clark is with us, so there.
Alex McLeish – Always credited (quite rightly) as the man who brought a squad together to achieve promotion and the Carling Cup, as well as a ninth place Prem finish. Always derided as a Ginger Judas Rat, who jumped a sinking ship to the baby pink raft over the Expressway, which could well be sinking too now. His total lack of support at Aston Villa, apparently from the Board, and obviously from the fans, meant he was destined to fail anyway, but he certainly hasn’t done a thing since his departure to make Bluenoses wish he was back. But would we be better of WITH him in charge. The McLeish post-Rangers and Scotland, pre-Vile?
Chris Hughton – Always credited (quite rightly) as the man who brought attractive football to St Andrews, and lead us into Europe. The man who made grown men cry, inexplicably, when he moved to Norwich. Always derided as a man who couldn’t see loyalty beyond the colour canary yellow, a man who yes, delivered Europa football but not success into the knockout stages. Understandable, when you transpose the club’s financial situation, and Carson Yeung’s arrest over the season. He was, though, also the man that couldn’t QUITE get his racehorse over the finish line. Our squad’s seeming surrender to Blackpool, who are no great shakes themselves this season, pretty much continued into the current season, with Lee Clark picking up a perhaps mildly deserved, but certainly overexaggerated share of the blame! Norwich’s pretty dull start to the season may well make a few of the rose-tinted specs-wearing Hughton-o-philes question their loyalty to the man who showed us none, when it mattered most…
So – who would you rather we have back? My own personal choice – if guaranteed success – would be Trevor Francis…Preston penalties debacle notwithstanding.
At the time, I swear blind the radio commentary had suggested that the penalties ‘strop’ was caused specifically by the referee. He had ‘promised’ the penalties would be taken in the neutral end, but the referee went back on his ‘word’, and had the pens held against the backdrop of baying Preston fans. Without said ‘strop’ Blues were still at a disadvantage…though David Moyes, then-Preston boss, was right to suggest Preston had ‘won’ the right to have the penalty decider at their stadium, by virtue of finishing a superior fourth that season, the referee should never have lead Francis to believe the empty stand was even an option. Some fans have never forgiven Francis this, whilst I stand by what he did in the heat of the moment. Some fans criticised Lee Clark for not caring enough. Trev wore his heart on his sleeve. And he so nearly gave us the League Cup a decade before McLiesh (spelling as intended). Without the actions of referee Elleray, denying a clear penalty, we would have done just that. His legendary status as a player swings it for me. McLeish was more ‘successful’ despite two relegations, than the lot of them, but his departure – bad enough given the circumstances he left us in – freshly relegated – to Villa – was the final straw for many, so I have to say he’d be a gritted teeth third choice, behind Chris Hughton, simply for the style of football I got to see at St Andrews during his tenure. Perhaps he’s been found out as an excellent Championship manager, and a below average Premier League manager? Sadly, he didn’t stick around to show us how good he could have been at Blues. Steve Bruce, behind McLeish simply because he left a feeling that we simply couldn’t progress any further with him. Barry Fry in fifth, as I don’t think ‘entertainment factor’ is something I’d want back at St Andrews at the expense of decent performances.
To the facts –
Trevor Francis. Won 139 out of 290. 47.93% win ratio
Chris Hughton. Won 26 out of 62. 41.94% win ratio
Barry Fry. Won 57 out of 143. 39.86% win ratio
Steve Bruce. Won 100 out of 270. 37.04% win ratio
Alex McLeish. Won 62 out of 168. 36.90% win ratio
Lee Clark. Won 6 out of 19. 31.58% win ratio (as at 18th Nov 2012)
Trevor Francis is head and shoulders above Chris Hughton here, who is the most comparable manager to him, having spent all of their “managing Blues” time in the Championship.
Barry Fry’s stats weren’t far behind Hughton’s but some of his matches were obviously a league lower! Steve Bruce and Alex McLeish are also comparable to each other, having managed in the Premier League AND in the Championship, so you could argue, that their stats are more valuable than Francis’s, having matches against the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea and, erm, the Vile included. Brucey still ‘trumps’ McLeish, which is good news for those who still want to sing “The Ginger is Yours” rather than “The Ginger is Ours Again”.
Lee Clark is rock bottom here, which won’t be a surprise to some, though it IS early days.
BUT – Did you know Chris Hughton had won only SEVEN in his first eighteen at Blues?
He also lost SIX. Same as Lee Clark. Perhaps they’re not so dissimilar after all? The one thing Hughton did was lead us into Europe. Through no fault of his own, Clark can’t do that this season. Perhaps the FA Cup is his opportunity to win fans over? In the meantime, if you really don’t want Lee Clark, perhaps we should welcome back Trevor Francis?
Keep Right On
Russell Dempsey
THE OBVIOUS CHOICE WOULD BE CHRIS HOUGHTON BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT ISNT GONNA HAPPEN BUT I WAS ALWAYS GUTTED WHEN TREVOR LEFT AND I FELT HE WAS SO UNLUCKY WITH PLAYERS GETTING INJURED AT THE WRONG TIME AND HE ALSO WAS A BLUENOSE AND FELT THE PAIN LIKE EVERY OTHER BLUES SUPPORTER WHEN THINGS
wWENT WRONG
TF took the club onwards massively especially behind the scenes.
Re-instated the reserve team, started the Academy whereas Fry justed wanted the money for his shopping list and more average players.
TF built a best eleven instead of a big average squad under Fry.
The club became more professional dragging the board & brady kicking and screaming along with him.
I maybe wrong, but i think he also got the club to build and buy the current training ground, a massive step from renting sports clubs around the city since we lost Damson facility under wheldon.
Chris Hughton, no thanks, walks out at first opportunity to Norwich of all places.
Just a stepping stone and yes he may have known this season was going to be harder, but that should have been his challenge, not a coward and walk away.
Didn’t give one jot for the players, fans or club he was walking out on.
Kept saying what a great club it was and how great the players had been and the rapport the players had but turned his back on them for self gratification.
I think Chris’s comment on Hughton is unfair. He coudl’ve stayed yes and that would’ve been very loyal. However if you take a glance at Hughton’s mindset I can see why he left. He had been inexplicably sacked from Newcastle, where he was loved like a son. He had earned premier league football and showed he could do it (as he is a Norwich right now). Then one minute, he’s sacked. The holy grail is the premier league and he obviously loved it up there. His job at blues was extremely hard and I would go as far to say that he did as well at blues as at Newcastle. Being an intelligent man he could probably see that there would be no investment again. It is pretty much a fact that no investment will lead to further decline. I think he got his desevred chance and took it. Remember he’s not a blues fan who watched us as a kid or anything. he simply made a career choice that most would say is logical. If you were offered a better paid job, with funding to make things happen and a real oppertunity to make a good reputation. He probably has dreams of managing spurs or newcastle again…or even, with time, one of the big ones. Imagine this. He does well at Norwich for a few years, then gets offered the spurs job. He does well with them for a few years (we all saw he can hack it in Europe) and then Fergie dies and he gets united job. Well done to him I say! All hypothtical of course
TF though was a legend who did a great job bringing in quality. Seeing the manager cry doesn’t make me dislike them at all. I cried that night in Preston, just like I did years later after the Blackpool game. Probably my two worst moments of being a blues fan. Would I have him back? Not in a million years. Time has changed and poor trevor has his health to consider
Great feature,looking back i think all of these guys had a huge impact on proceedings,and they all took the club on a level,ultimately Steve Bruce taking us into the prem,and beating our arch rivals,that was the ultimate for me,and he never soiled us,or,our rivals by switching to the other side.
TF famously turned down Cantona at Sheffield Wednesday, had man management problems famously at QPR, and upset some players at Blues because they didn’t have the skills which he had had as a player, showing off his ability by landing a ball from a distant volley on showerheads in the changing rooms and mocking anyone’s inability to do the same. Many of the best, British, managers were not top players and TF was the wrong pick, though I’m surprised at his win %ge, for which he deserves credit, and, as has been said by Chris, for improving the support structure and regaining a training ground. Despite his win %ge we were very poor in the playoffs, never looking like progressing, three down in the first half at home to Barnsley I think it was in one first leg tie. I don’t care whether a manager, or player for that matter, has a great feeling for the club and whether a loss hurts that bit more, it’s irrelevant. A good pro wants to win and doesn’t like losing and that allied to high ability is what I’m interested in. Fry was a clown and didn’t give me value for my ticket money, despite the silly Tattum view that he gave us something as a cheeky chappie. If I want the latter, I’ll go and see Roy ‘Chubbie’ Brown. When I take on board the cost of going to a game I want to see good football, I’m not interested in the manager’s comedic or dramatic qualities. Under Steve Bruce, there were probably fewer than ten out of ninety games which were worth watching; his departure was too long delayed. The football under McLeish was absolutely dire. Yes, he got us promoted, after taking us down, but it was abysmal to watch. The end doesn’t justify the means, unless you’re getting in for nothing, and even then I wouldn’t go. I saw the Chelsea game at home, which we won 1-0. I can say “I was there” but I wouldn’t go and watch it again or anything like it. For £25 I don’t expect my team to have so little ambition that they don’t get out of their own half in the second period and allow the opposing ‘keeper to advance to the halfway line with the ball before delivering it into our penalty area. As for Lee Clark, he has done nothing so far which would indicate that it was anything other than a poor appointment. His selection and tactical failings with Blues have been identified by Huddersfield fans as the reason that they were pleased to see him go. Listen to his platitudes and trite, nonsensical comments and you should know that the combined package is, as Americans say, a lemon. As all fans know, what we need are new owners who are of sound financial standing and integrity, hopefully with the ambition to gradually achieve a secure place in the top flight and possessed of the understanding that there is potential to grow the crowds to 35,000 40,000 gradually over a period of time. To do that needs a team on the pitch which plays good, passing football, generating excitement and hope over a longish period. Heaven forbid the scenario which the silly Tattum has tried to generate in which Clark is not only kept on but given, surreally, money to spend. Fans should knock back any comment anywhere that what we expect is hard-nosed effort, that and only that. What we expect, I think, is indeed effort, you can’t play any sport without that, but allied to high levels of ability. It’s not the one but both elements. The Sullivan regime dissipated the hope at their takeover through keeping managers on for too long who were clearly not going to deliver good, watchable football. The achievement after sixteen years was three quarters of a new stadium and good training facilities and crowds about 150% larger. That was not a great achievement in sixteen years. What they left was a team in the second tier, which is where we were when they arrived, and in the ownership of people who were going to take far less than sixteen years to take us back to the dire position which we were in. Fans need to demand not only financial stability but good quality football and a plan to progress in the medium term rather than catch-as-catch-can schemes and football. It is possible; Swansea, for one, have demonstrated that you don’t have to play to limited objectives, pursue only containment. And you don’t need famous names to achieve it. Let’s have an end to satisfaction with limited objectives and poor football, and people like Tattum who excuse it and pretend that it’s for the eventual good and that it’s better than it is. No more applauding the King’s suit of magic clothes when he is in fact naked. Let’s have an end to the Birmingham, or west Midlands, mind- set which has seen fans happy for several generations to see players signed who were great but are past their best. No 35-year old Wayne Rooneys, or 37-year old Beckhams for that matter! We have not got very far in eighteen years since the last great hope. We have to hope for the right owners and for a high quality manager who knows how to produce good football and is capable of building an excellent playing structure, regardless of Blue blood in his veins or a particular sensitivity for the Blues’ fortunes.
Great comment, cheers Wearynose. I take it Colin Tattum took your job at the Mail?
In all seriousness, you make some salient points, but we are where we are, and it may be that Lee Clark is the best manager we could attract in our circumstances. You also pose the age old question of what is preferable, success or entertainment?
I enjoyed the Francis years more than the McLeish years, but wouldn’t swap the Carling Cup day for Premier League status. I agree about Fry though, worst years of my Blues sporting life, even with our “double winning exploits”.
KRO
Thanks, Russ. If success is the only criterion, as with McLeish’s absolutely dire promotion season, then what is the point in attending matches? Professional football is supposed to be entertainment, that’s why fans gathered from miles around, despite nothing like rapid transport being available, more than a century ago to watch Small Heath and the other formative professional clubs. They wanted to watch players who were above the level of the village or district team, when places like Kingstanding were villages, which was all that had previously been accessible to them. In short: it was the availability of greater entertainment which drew crowds. If McLeish’s product is acceptable because it represents success then you might just as well stay at home and watch the results evolve on Teletext or, better still, watch Jeff Stelling’s entertaining presentation of the same thing. Why would you waste money on a ticket? Why is football any different from a comedian, or a singer/ group or a theatre company? If they are not very good then you don’t go and see them again. Which is why the Blues crowd is dwindling. On the basis of falling gates, entertainment versus success is not in question. I’ve watched unsuccessful Blues teams for over fifty years but I have watched many teams who were entertaining and could score goals. I’ve stood in crowds of more than 50,000 to watch almost hopeless causes but on occasions seen them turned into great results; truly great performances not like getting two goals back after going 3-0 down. I’ve stood in the vacant acres of ‘crowds’ of 6,000 to watch the awful aerial bombardments of Saunders’ teams and experienced chest pains through anguish at the ineptitude on display long before reaching the age of heart attack. I’ve even ‘seen’ Latchford soar to score a goal at the Tilton end, long after he had been sold, superimposed over the reality of Ken Armstrong’s hopeless, flailing wastefulness. I only went occasionally then; it was a duty like visiting the grave of a long dead friend. That, and introducing my seven year old son the life of despair which has largely been the lot of being a Blues fan. The current position is very similar. As I said, I think we must hope for a sound takeover but then we must demand good football, a visionary plan, no gimmicks, no washed out old stars and no siphoning of revenue. We can change the traditional lot of Blues fans but we must not be pleased with or grateful for the second rate, which is what Tattum’s longstanding obsequiousness and inability to identify the mundane, or worse, has helped to perpetuate.
Surely, McLeish would be credited for the European qualification. Saying Hughton should be credited for leading us into Europe is incorrect (or just a poorly constructed sentence). I could have taken over from McLeish and led us into Europe, as we had qualified.
Although Hughton did play great football.
TF’s win ratio is higher because he never managed us in the Premier League, so we would expect to win 50% of our matches at Championship level, but not in the Premier LEague anyway.
So I vote for Steve Bruce!!!!
Hawk, when I compared Hughton to Francis, I acknowledged all their time as our manager was Championship level. As for Europe, Would you say McLeish lead us into Europe? General Custer lead his troops into battle, did he have to start the war to achieve that credit?