I was on Radio WM this week and Franksy was understandably painting a gloomy picture of the club. I felt it was my duty to remain positive though and kept insisting that just because things are being reported as possibly happening, they haven’t happened yet.
John, who has done the odd article for us, sent me this one. It pretty much sums up how I feel about things. What about you?
Birmingham City is a football club in crisis. No, not according to me, not according to the football league – not even according to the media, whose comparisons with Portsmouth following our relegation have been surprisingly on the slim side. Birmingham City are a football club in crisis – according to many of its own fans. In fact, Birmingham City has become such a farce in the football world that some fans have even started up a Facebook group to protest against the Carson Yeung regime – I use the term ‘fans’ loosely!
Carson Yeung is in trouble in Hong Kong for money laundering, the club has spent no money so far in the transfer window and Peter Pannu’s promise that we will not embark upon a ‘fire sale’ of players has not been kept – apparently. It wouldn’t be Birmingham City without an air of doom and gloom!
Look at the facts though, and actually Birmingham City is about as strongly placed for a season in the Championship as they have ever been! So Yeung is in a spot of bother in Hong Kong? That as may be, the club have stressed a number of times that this is not related to his business in Birmingham City. Even if it is, what’s the alternative? Shall we bring back Gold and Sullivan? I suppose they were squeaky clean and loved by all? No, the last few years of their regime was marred by fans calling for them to leave – not to mention numerous police investigations. Yeung is said to be broke – I’m sure you would be too if you had splashed out thousands of pounds on flop loans like Alexander Hleb, Matt Derbyshire, David Bentley and Obefami Martins for no return, just as Blues did last season. Yet, even with dodgy signings like that we won the Carling Cup (or more, Arsenal lost it!) and guess what? This season we will be playing in Europe!
Playing in Europe with a rubbish team, because we have spent no money? Erm…actually, no. We may have not spent money but look at the quality of player we have brought in; Marlon King, love him or hate him is a proven goalscorer – something Cameron Jerome hasn’t been called since he left Cardiff. Adam Rooney is a bright young prospect. Chris Burke is probably one of the finest wingers in the Championship and Morgaro Gomis certainly looks a decent little battler. Steven Caldwell is a little old but did you not know ageism in the workplace was banned a few years ago? Its a good job too, because I don’t hear anyone complaining about Stephen Carr signing a new one year deal and he’s no spring chicken! In fact, we have so far signed more players than other English club except Sunderland. Money isn’t everything; Rowan Vine, Marcus Bent, Jesper Gronkjaer and Giovanny Espinoza were all bought by Blues in the past – give me King on a Bosman any day!
What of the ‘fire sale’? It hasn’t happened. We’ve only sold two members of our squad (not counting players released.) Gardner to Sunderland for around £5m and Roger Johnson to Wolves for around £7m. Neither are a great loss. Neither have been snapped up as bargains. Gardner has no technical on the ball ability whatsoever – he was poor at Villa and only played well for Blues out of pure passion – it helped that nobody else was contributing towards the goals! Roger Johnson is a fine defender – when paired with Scott Dann. He showed towards the end of last season that he is poor without his defensive partner and is nowhere near worth double figures alone – 7 million is a reasonable figure! Dann won’t move unless we get a huge offer – I doubt Everton can afford 12 million without selling Leighton Baines, as reported this morning. Stoke have been turned down and not once has Dann indicated to Hughton he wants to leave. Neither has Foster, in fact with goalkeeping coach Watson staying on, I’ll put ten pounds on Foster being in the team to play Derby in a few weeks!
So what of the manager? McLeish left and took his depressing style of football with him. We actually got paid by Villa to let him leave! What did the board do? They got in the man 80% of fans wanted – Chris Hughton. Unlike Randy Lerner who ignored protests to bring in a figure of hate amongst the whole of Birmingham! Next season, we might attack, we might score goals – we just might be exciting to watch – its not as though Hughton does not know how to get a team to the Premiership! If he fails? So be it, we can stay in the Championship and rebuild so that when we do return, we manage more than two seasons in the promised land. I’d take Hughton’s stable attacking football over McLeish’s negative yo-yo tactics any day – wouldn’t you?
So where’s the crisis? Its where it has always been – in the heads of Blues fans expecting the worst. The reality of the situation is that Birmingham are heading in the right direction and the only crisis is the scaremongering ‘fans’ that always expect the worst. We’re Birmingham City – we do everything the hard way but we always get there in the end!
John Edden
Absolute spot on article. With most blu noses the glass is half empty. This article is refreshingly welcome. Written in the repect of the glass is half full, I’ll be happy if foster & dann are the o ly ones to stay, a good spine of the team is what’s needed, 1 good keeper,1 good defender, ain’t seen much about gomis to comment, but Rooney seems to know where the net is, as does the king, so I’m ever positive we can mount a serious charge for promotion, be through the play offs lol KRO & SOTV
Agree with these comments but dont forget if Blues fans are not moaning about something or another,,they are dead !,,,if Bluenose,s dont have anything to moan about they will moan about having nothing to moan about,,,,,, [ I am def on the doom and gloom side of the coin]
Birmingham City is a football club that does not know where it is. The owner doesn’t know if he’s going to spend the next 10 years in prison. To say this won’t affect the club financially is plain stupidity. It may not be connected with the club or BIH, but if our major shareholder is imprisoned then we’ll be affected, strategically and financially. After all The Hing Kong courts won;t just imprison the parts of Carson Yeung that don’t belong to BIH or Blues.
The players don’t know where they, weather or not they’ll be sold off to inject much needed cash into a club who is quite frankly (and rightly so given all the circumstances) in survival mode.
The ineffective fans (and I use that word – the long one before “fans” – because all we can really do is standby and watch) do not know where we are. We have no clue which set of players we’re going to be supporting next year, where in the table we’re going to be battling for places or what our realistic goals and aspirations are. Promotion??? Come Christmas, we might all be hoping we can stay up.
The ONLY positive here in Chris Hughton and the back of a manager who relegated us (I’m not saying he was in charge when we got relegated, I’m saying it was his fault). Hughton is tactically superior.
In addition to this I’m not sure John knows what he is talking about in much of this article. To say the Arsenal lost the cup is the view of an Arsenal fan. Yes the goal was a mistake, but the game we very even throughout and if the tables were turned it would have been a great team taking advantage of a lapse of concentration. Blues did EXTREMELY well ALL game and punished Arsenal when the opportunity arose. And in possession of this pov you use the term fan “loosely” when it’s suggested we change regime because our leader is likely to be in prison?!?!?! That’s a work of art that is.
You’ve got Johnson and Gardner all wrong too. Both would be excellent in The Championship, yet you turn to their Premiership abilities. You also state quite clearly that Johnson is a much better player with Scott Dann, to brush off his departure as unimportant and THEN imply Dann is staying anyway!!!!! Make your mind up.
This article is all over place, just like my beloved Birmingham City FC!!!
A “FAN”
Steve-o, thank you for taking the time to write an extensive comment. You’ve made some good points. I’d like to just respond to some.
I can understand your comments about Johnson. However the way I read it, is that John is commenting on them as a pairing. I don’t see that he is saying that Johnson is better. John’s point was that RJ looked a great defender alongside Dann but struggled without him and I’d agree with that. Dann is the more naturally skilled out of the two. We’ve bought in Caldwell and after a difficult start Davies was beginning to look much better. So I don’t think there was a contradiction there.
I kind of do agree with your comments about the final though, but again I think that John was typing that with his tongue in his cheek. 🙂
When we talk about Carson Yeung being the “major” share holder, he only owns 30%. He is the biggest share holder but not the major one. IF and at the moment he is innocent, IF he does get convicted – I doubt we would have a problem selling 30% of shares.
I genuinely don’t believe that is an issue.
Once again thank you for the comments mate, these are my thoughts others may disagree.
Kev
Sorry but your article is rubbish. There is a wall of silence from the blues camp any one wonders why? they may have only sold 2 players but watch this space over the coming weeks.
How come blues rejected offers for Johnson reported to be close on £9 mil which was phased, to accept £6mil from Wolves? maybe Wolves offered a black bin liner stuffed with used hong kong dollar bills!!!
Offers for Dann and Jerome were accepted only for the players to back out. Zidic hasn’t even returned for pre-season, he’s been told he will be leaving as soon as an offer come in. Furguson is so we hear on his was to Blackpool so don’t think for one moment that this is a selective kull. this is a wholesale stripping of the assets of Birmingham City FC. The money generated from this excercise including the £3m compensation for McLiesh will approach £55 mil. seems very close to the £57 million Mr Yueng has allegedly laundered in Hong Kong.
The club are supposed to be in debt to the tune of £25Million so this sell-off will leave the club in the black and Houghton with a £30 million kitty to get promotion. Yeah right!!! can anyone honestly think that money will be seen again???
lets keep our fingers crossed the transfer money together with all the season ticket money doesn’t disappear along with Mr Yueng before his court case. By the time the court has siezed all the assets, the horse may have already bolted along with the money and the dreams of the loyal blues fans
Thank you steve-0 – I was waiting for the first bit of negativity to arise. As the third comment, you may have just broken a record.
Let me address your issues. Firstly, there is no indication that Yeung is going to prison. Take a look over the past 5 years or so of football and tell me how many football chairmen have been accused of money laundering or similar offences, our old board included. How many were actually charged and imprisoned? My point is, when you have as much money as Carson is alleged to have collated over the past few years (he’s not broke, he just isn’t pumping millions into the club like everyone wants him to!) then it is difficult not to be accused of money laundering. Millions switched accounts on a regular basis. Carson is under a police investigation – he has not yet been found guilty of anything. I’m not defending Carson – I think there is far too much we don’t know about him and he seems a very private man – he’s just all we have at the moment and to say he hasn’t put money into the club – look how much he spent last year on signings and loan deals! Again, I’ll put money on Carson NOT going to prison. In fact if he does, I will write a post eating humble pie, humiliating myself just for you!
Arsenal lost the Carling Cup final. I’m a die hard Blues fan and always have been but I’m also a realist. Yes, we outplayed them in the first half and they couldn’t handle Zig’s height but they came back strong in the second and I remember them hitting the woodwork a few times whilst we were left defending for our lives at times! To rise to their level, compete and outplay them for a large period of the game meant we were deserving winners and I have never been prouder to be a Blues fan but let’s be realistic, had Martins not have scored that 89th minute fluke goal, they would have likely run rings around us in extra time.
Regards Johnson and Dann, I think you need to read the piece again. Johnson is a better player with Dann. Look at our record since the CC semi finals when Dann became injured – we were defensively poor. In fact, Johnson even became something of a liability towards the end of the season, without Dann’s consistent security. He’s a good player but he is not worth more than 7 million. If he was as good as Dann, not only would he be more expensive, but a club bigger than Wolves would have come in for him – nobody else expressed a real interest.
I don’t state that Dann will stay or go. I simply believe that unless we receive a high figure for him, he will be playing at Blues next season. Stoke have been rejected, I doubt Everton have the money and I am pretty damn sure he will not be leaving on the cheap. Dann has not once grumbled that he wants to leave – Johnson did, a few times. Gardner hinted.
The club is not all over the place. It is not in limbo. It is undergoing a period of transition and you will be happier for it after next season.
A realist
Well said John.
I’m more excited about watching Blues this season, than I have been for quite a while.
Heading towards St Andrews on a match day this coming season thinking it could be an excitng game, will make a positive change from the past few seasons of going down knowing we would just be trying not to lose, rather than going for the win.
Happy days could be coming back to Blues 🙂
KRO
Well said! It’s about time someone ran through the facts, and disregarded the conspiracy theorists. I think it’s about time blunoses tried some KRO themselves….
“Regards Johnson and Dann, I think you need to read the piece again. Johnson is a better player with Dann.” —— I’m in agreement and do not require a re-read. My point is why are you justifying Johnson’s departure by saying he’s not as good without Dann, then imply Dann is staying anyway, surely that would mean they both would play together. Does it not? “Neither are a loss are your words” Johnson is a loss if Dann stays which you are implying, you can’t have it both ways. If Dann goes then you can have your Johnson justification, but then you lose the notion of Dann staying, you’re clearly using as as to say “things aren’t that bad guys”.
Carson Yeung may not go to prison, correct, he has to face trial, but please don’t question us as fans if we feel strongly enough about our club to have an opinion, no matter how drastic, on how to better it – or different to yours of course. I don’t want to Yeung etc to go, by the way, but I feel if you’re projecting to fans as a collective then you could have a little more empathy.
Agree with the extra time part of the Cup Final, but diagree with Arsenal losing it. I don’t recall them hitting the woodwork a “few times” at all, but I’m happy to sit and watch it again and reminisce and reflect how quickly we have gone back 10 years in our progress.
Oh and by the way Kev, Carson Yeung IS our major shareholder (or as you call it “biggest”). He’s not a “majority” shareholder which would mean he holds 51% , but he holds more shares than any other.
Cheers Steve-O – you are of course entitled to your opinions after all, football is a built around opinions!
To clear the matter up, with Johnson gone, if Dann stays , Johnson will not be missed. If Dann leaves I will be concerned but can’t see it happening to be honest. Even should Dann leave, Davies is good enough for Championship level. In many ways, Dann made Johnson look better than he is and although he will do well at Wolves, I doubt he will be as good as he was for us at the back with Dann.
We’re in a period of transition. We can do nothing about Yeung but sit and wait to see what happens. I’m confident he will be OK and even omitting Johnson, Gardner, maybe Dann, Ferguson and Ridgewell from our squad, we still have a better team than many in the Championship. Leicester will be dangerous next season and Forest will make a fist of up but mark my words, Blues will up there!
Appreciate your opinions and you comments 🙂
I’d also like to point out that I did say “The owner doesn’t know if he’s going to spend the next 10 years in prison”.
And please, selling his shares does not resolve the problem. Financially and strategically it affects us, NO QUESTION!. Cause and affect, something happens and it has an impact.
The only positive I see is that we have a more attack minded manager, but we certainly have a new era and new way about us to get used to. There are pluses and minuses in that and that is what football is all about so no complaints. We have a Championship to get out of and IMO a very good manager to help us do that.
If Dave Watson stays on and keeps Foster on board (he’s retired from England duty anyway so a season in the Championship won’t hurt his International career, Colin Calderwood can come on board and if we retain Ferguson or recruit a good midfielder should he go then I think we’re in decent enough shape to have a good crack at it.
However the futures of Ridgewell, Ferguson, Dann, and Foster are key and of course we need to replace Gardner as Bowyer is also gone.
Some buying needs to be done. It seems we have squeezes the Bosman sponge as much as we can.
Steve-o I may have used the wrong words mate, and apologies if I did. What I meant was the impact of him going to prison wouldn’t be as major as people are saying IMO because he only accounts for just over a quarter of the shares. Yes there will be some rumblings, but I would be more concerned if he owned 50% of the shares.
I wasn’t having a go at your comments, I was putting my personal opinion which differs from yourself. 🙂
Just read this post re a message on the Bham Eve Mail and am so glad I did as last some postives I am sick of our fans saying that the board havent invested its a joke £80 million to buy the club and a bunch of loan flops on excessive wages then money wasted on the likes of Michel who I hope proves me wrong and is ok ..They have invested LETS HOPE CY doesnt get sent down and pumps more cash into us Chris is the man to take us forward onwards and upwards… and by the way agree with comments re Gardner and Johnson totally agree here’s to the Premiership in may 2013 KRO…
I’m unsure Carson Yeung’s strategy of branding us in China and actively working that model will not take a huge hit if he’s in prison Kev.
I don’t think our fans are different from any others. Many, if not most, football fans, think the fit and proper test should be “do you have loadz n loadz of dosh and will you donate it to my club”? One night Facebook is full of calls for the Board not to sell anyone and to buy more and the next night it’s full of folk demanding lower ticket prices. What they’re actually doing is demanding that the owner dips further into his own pocket, while they don’t want to!
Some reports from Hong Kong state that there is no evidence of money laundering and what they are investigating is that there is no explanation for the cash that Yeung has acquired. So they’re assuming it’s laundering. In that case clearly Yeung has some cash. Is he going to donate it to Blues? I doubt it but he has already “lent” us tens of millions. Will he lend us more? I doubt it. Pannu must therefore balance the books where we are.
I disagree with the rubbishing of Gardner. That Johnson has gone to the 17th best club in the country, says it all. Moving from the Championship is a good career move for any player. For both the fee we’ve got is realistic. With the drastic drop in income after relegation we need the cash. Selling them is the “fit and proper” thing to do and everyone benefits.
Will Dann and Foster and any others go? They may have to if there’s no more sources of loans. And that is the crux of the matter. If we’ve got enough cash in to cover the running costs, there is no crisis. If we haven’t yet but do before the window closes, there is no crisis. If we can’t get enough in or Yeung goes to prison and that turns off the tap, there is a big crisis.
Personally, I’m suspicious of Yeung but the current situation is stable and I’m confident that we’ll have a squad and manager capable of a good challenge for promotion. And swapping McLeish for Hughton and £3m is a fantastic bit of business!!!
I see that point, but I’m not so sure. If someone takes over from him who is well known there we could just carry on.
The truth is neither of us really know, and I prefer not to worry about it until it actually happens.
“I see that point, but I’m not so sure. If someone takes over from him who is well known there we could just carry on.
The truth is neither of us really know, and I prefer not to worry about it until it actually happens.”
Of course Kev, I’m with you mate, but I can’t subscribe to noises from Blues saying it won’t have an impact. Of course it will. Let’s hope it’s a positive one eh?
just a thought about Roger Johnson. lf after being available since May when we were relegated,if the best club he can attract is Wolves then many people think he is not as good as he thinks he is,and a fair price for him.
Furthermore if Ben Foster gave up the chance of playing for England to concentrate on his club career, that is just what he should be doing.He will be worth 20 goals to us in that division so he is the one we must hang on to.
Thank you for an excellent article. Can I point out that CY only owns just over 26% of the shares in BIH so if he goes to prison he will relinquish his directorship, but keep his shares. It’s the oyher 70% plus that bothers me, at the moment the far east markets are in turmoil, investors are not looking for “lame ducks”, but having said that, the shares are right there for the taking for somebody with real money, and I read that what PP is doing now.
Regard ing the team We need to start again albeit with “bosmans” and youth. and if players want out then let them go remember they still have to be paid whether they play or not.
KRO
Shame that money is so important in modern day football, in many ways i would prefer blues to be playing in a competitive division like the championship rather than the boring premierleague. But money dictates that we have to be there and be there quick? Remember not so long back we was in the old third division fighting it out with brentford, days of crisis but bloody good times and we had nothing in the bank really a bit like now. So lets just be happy that blues are just about to embark on a championship season that im already hoping will have consistent displays of attractive attacking football, not since barry fry have we seen that, and if we get it next season i’ll be happy to stay in the championship, the premiershit for me will be a welcome but honestly unwanted bonus! Come on blues.
Yes, we may get there in the end…..it took a long time to get a first rate cup.Perhaps I am in a minority…..Chris Hughton was not my first choice, I would hate to see the back of Camron Jerome, and I do think Stephen Carr has done a great job but perhaps his time is over, but what do I know. I’ll be happy only when the window closes, and I see what squad we have till January. My worst fear is that we go back into ‘Europe’ and embarrass ourselves, when old foggies like me remember those short but nearly glorious days of yester year
Good article, lots of good response on the positive and “slightly” negative side. My thouhgts, for what they are worth is that our situation ha been over hyped my the media who see it as good news, CY arrested but all is well at BCFC is not “news”. Of course there are plenty of ifs, of course we have financial problems, we’ve just been relegated and lost the cash cow and we’re having to pay for a load of dummies who didnt want to get their boots dirty for us but there are also the well stated positives out there.
Until players are sold they are still under contract to us and will play for us. Personally I hope Zidic goes just from a financial point of view if his stated wages of 55K per week are correct. Ferguson seems to want to leave and has only a year left on his contract, we have other central midfielders who can play in his place, and may pass the ball forwards a bit more regularly, so let him go.
Yes, agreed, the squad still needs strengthening in certain areas and I for one trust that CH has put his list forward and it is being dealt with.
When the season starts will everything be exactly how I would like it, I dont know, and thats the point really isn’t we don’t know. We could spend 50 million and things not gel and we end up in the bottom half or we could spend nothing and win the league, we don’t know.
So, after reams and reams and reams of boring negativity let’s try and see some positives or at least positive critism. By the way I do like to hear other peoples opinions whether they are similar to mine or not, it keeps things interesting, that’s why I read these blogs.
Good work chaps, each and every one of you. KRO SOTV
Great article offering a much more positive mind set. I am worried about Steve-O though, he seems to believe the junk that the British press is shoveling out and re-hashing daily about Carson Yeung. I am looking forward to watching Blues next year after suffering the tictacs (yes Titcacs) of Double Agent McCleish for the last 3 years.
Cheer Up Bluenoses and start backing the club and the Board….. No One Else Wants Us.
“I use the term ‘fans’ loosely”
Why because they are not gullible and / or see things differently.
Look at the facts “blues are strongly placed”, how is that a fact it’s your opinion as of today.
Tomorrow we could have sold all our top players from last season or we could have kept them and added another 5 first teamers, who knows what’s around the corner.
I’m sure pannu does but he’s not telling us and probably correct not too as it would be bad for sales and purchases, too much info for the opposition.
Though the mail report that he is in HK seeking new partners, if true, says a lot about the state we may be in. Not a fact but looking like one.
Weather we are neg or pos doesn’t matter, people are entitled to their opinions based on the info available
Life makes us what we are so don’t denigrate others because they see things differently to you.
At least by their comment pos or neg it shows how we all care about this club.
I agree with one point you made which was we don’t need to spend a fortune but be wise and knowledgeable on players. Look at Blackpool last year most of those were cheap or free’s and they nearly stayed up.
Teams have done similar in the champs. Don’t think Swansea, Reading, Blackpool, Watford, Leeds, spent a fortune over the last two years
Failed to mention from the opposite side of the coin that Gardner scored 10 goals and you wouldn’t get an english 10 goal midfielder signing for a prem team for 5 mill
Johnson was good enough to play without dann and get us to a cup final and I wouldn’t blame Johnson but Jiranek and Davies who weren’t fit enough or reliable enough to play with him.
Scaremongering comes from the press inc radio wm who you didn’t slag off while you were on there.
It comes from the leadership of the club which is lacking at the moment.
It comes from comments from panu saying we are owed 5.4 million then end up with half that and saying he’ll report them to the prem league and doesn’t.
It comes from letting Bowyer and Phillips leaving who we can’t afford then sign for other champs clubs (may happen with McFadden as well).
What good business man wouldn’t have kept McFadden on his new option then look to offload him before the start of the season so making a million or two.
Lots of us are worried because we don’t know where all this will end.
Southampton were not in debt, but once their parent company went into administration they were docked points.
The Football League ruled that the ‘loophole’ of the holding company rather than the club being in administration was inadmissable, as in their view the club and the holding company were effectively one and the same.
Anyway one positive story from Chris burke,
“This pre-season is the best I’ve experienced since I’ve been a professional, the most enjoyable, which speaks volumes.”
That’s picked me up, well done Chris & Chris.
Chris I assume the dig about not criticising the press was aimed at me as it was me that was on.
I’ve been interviewed a few times now, and I doubt I would be asked back if I criticised them. Anyway that’s not how I do business. I prefer when been asked about things, to be positive.
I heard you on the Paul Franks show and I was the one who sent an email saying you were a comedian.Having read your article I think the word deluded now comes to mind.You say Blues are not in crisis.Having you been following the financial fortunes of Birmingham International Holdings this year.In January the company issued a warning to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange stating that liabilities far exceeded resources.Yeung then said he would mortgage his properties to raise much needed cash-by March a certain amount had been raised but nothing like what was needed.None of this is in the minds of Blues fans,it is documented in both the UK and Hong Kong press should you care to look.Birmingham are strongly placed for promotion? What Birmingham? Have you see our new team play with all our exciting free transfer signings? I think not.You go on to say that Yeung is in a spot of bother.Really?If found guilty he faces a long custodial sentence and in any event it is likely that the Hong Kong authorities will seize his assets before his trial in August.Some spot of bother.
Finally the thing that really irks me about your article is its total lack of substance.The “We’re Blues fans and it’s always like this” attitude is pathetic.My suggestion is that instead of coming out with cliches do some research,make an effort to find out what is going on before putting yourself forward as some expert with his finger on the pulse.Until you know what you are talking about I suggest you saying nothing-as it is at present you have nothing to say of any value at this most difficult time for our club.
Hi Ray, talking of facts, you too should do some more research before you make rediculous statements…….
Read the very factual article on “Often Partizan” using real facts from HK and not using UK scare mongering press…… Sorry to promote another blog but most people who have an interst read them all anyway.
Ray research and take in all of the facts before you go on a tirade or you may look a little stupid.
Innocent until proven guilty except in China where Suspicion can get you locked up for a very long time and Carson hasn’t been, has he.
Ray, I was on Franksy’s show (I own and run the site here) and John wrote the article, which I agree with. I’m pleased you think I’m a comedian, I try to lighten the place.
However I was serious with my responses, and will remain positive UNTIL everything falls down. Something that hasn’t happened yet.
Fantastic comments, can’t see why the blues fans are being so negative, the same players from last year minus two or three will be a revelation under Hughtons attacking style of coaching, there is more to be positive about than negative, fremember its the fans that keep this club going not the sold called “owners” who either use the club as a “plaything” or to gain media attention, Yeung has managed to do both of these but we unlike him will still be here in 10 years time, so forget all the rumours and get on with doing what the team wants “supporting them”
Despite all the rumours, claims and counter claims, they are a waste of time without hard, cold facts. I can’t help trying to place myself in the new bosses shoes and wondering to myself if i would have taken the job if the owners had told me at the interview that i had to sell ALL my best players, steady the club, only sign Bosman players that no one else wants AND win promotion, playing 4-4-2, play entertaining football and winning the division by a mile! I don’t think we would have got a manager of Houghtons quality if what i’ve just described was the case. Admittedly the situation with Yeung changed the picture somewhat but again it’s pure speculation about what ‘might’ happen. There are a lot of fans that are a bit angry that they are not hearing anything from the club but maybe that’s because there’s nothing to tell! I think the new boss will do a cracking job this year and i’m looking forward to the new season starting!
SussexWill-which of the statements I made was ridiculous? Sorry to disappoint you but I don’t rely on fans websites such as this or any other for that matter for information.I suggest you read the published announcements/company reports(such as they are) issued by Birmingham International Holdings.Also I would hardly describe either the Guardian or Financial Times as examples of UK scare mongering press.I made no comment on the guilt or otherwise re Carson Yeung but I do know that he will be in court in August and faces some serious charges.Maybe you are one of these deluded fans who will argue that the Hong Kong authorities are all Villa fans and all of this is a terrible plot against BCFC.I have no intention of looking stupid although I am well aware that there are too many fans who lack the ability to grasp what is actually going on.When you have something of importance to say I shall look forward to reading it.
@ Ray Power “In January the company issued a warning to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange stating that liabilities far exceeded resources.Yeung then said he would mortgage his properties to raise much needed cash-by March a certain amount had been raised but nothing like what was needed.”
If the warning was in January and nothing like what was needed had been raised by March and it’s now July, why is BIH not in administration?
The club is not far off administration.Why do you think there is a sale of players going on and so many released and why are the only players being brought in are free transfers? If you are suggesting that all is well at the club please explain to me why the shares have been suspended? Please check up on the points I have made and if you can refute any of them then I am happy to admit I am wrong.Put in the effort,do some research and then you might be in a position to make an informed comment.
Before you joined in, I wrote a piece above where you can clearly see that I don’t know where Blues are financially and that I understand that it may be catastrophic. However, neither you nor I know how close Blues are to administration and no amount of research will get us the answer because if it was in the public domain everyone would already know. And your agressive, insulting proclamations won’t convince me that you’re more internet literate than me or have read anything that I haven’t. That is unless you read cantonese where I’d be very interested in a link and translation.
The shares in BIH have been suspended because the major shareholder has been accused of money laundering. Post a link if you have anything more informative than that.
And just to be pedantic, I refute “by March a certain amount had been raised but nothing like what was needed” or they would have been in administration in March.
Ray how many players have been sold? 2, that’s hardly a revolving door. Seb and KP weren’t staying even if we did stay up.
In regard to the financial stories doing the rounds, although I don’t claim to be an expert, am also able to see that in most cases it is the same story re-jigged. There has been NOTHING to suggest that financially we are suffering anything but relegation re-structuring. How you can say with authority that we are close to administration unless you work for the Blues or a fanance organisation involved with the club. The point I was making on Franksy’s show, was that there has been news of financial problems for ages, but it just hasn’t materialised – even after relegation. Like when there is rumours of new players, I don’t believe that until they are on the Kop with a scarf over their head, I won’t believe there is a financial problem until the club say so.
In regard to reading websites like ours for news, that’s a fair point – we’ve always been an article site giving our opinion on things rather than reporting news. (Although we do from time to time). We are here to give people a perspective on the news. Sometimes people will agree, sometimes they will disagree. Anyone is welcome to disagree, however I reserve the right that we disagree back. 🙂
I remember when my Dad first brought me down the Blues to see us beat QPR 2-1. Trevor Francis scored and was brilliant!! I used to get goose bumps just watching Frank Worthington juggling the ball when warming up. Great days! I will never forget taking my son down to Wembley to see us lift a cup!! I will hold these memories forever because that’s all I’ll have. We now face oblivion at the hands of these crooks. Wait and see…we’ll never get back to the big time…NEVER!!
An appropriately positive article John.
Perhaps it’s better to separate the issue at hand by stating that the club may be in crisis, but that the team isn’t?!!
There are a lot of positive things going on at the player level despite some departures, and as others have stated, I too am quite excited by the prospect of better football and a manager who knows how to manage a team.
I can’t believe how many happy-clappers are still around despite the obvious truth slapping them
about the face. This club is going down the tubes at lightspeed. We have just lost the best manager in 300 years after an epic season. The finest footballers ever to grace our turf are leaving the sinking ship in droves, and for pennies. We cannot get anyone to sign for us except out of desperation. Our chairman is washing his hands of us as he has much bigger issues to contend with.
Get Real, Guys!
Sorry, what was the question?
This thread is a hoot!! Good original article that has spawmed an interesting debate, some of it priceless…..”best manager for 300 years…”….I’m still crying with laughter at that one. Truth is, I’m more excited abut the coming season than I have been for the last several years, and really, that’s all that matters to me.
although the the forum is causing a few insults to go back and forth, i have to agree with the points Ray has made. there is no point every Blues fan sticking their heads in the sand. the wholesale striping of assets in Birmingham City is to bail out the parent company where Yueng has consolidated his business losses (a bit like the Glaziers did at Man U) the only problem is that the only apparent way to clear these losses if to liquidate assets, namely every player at Birmingham that has value.
I have no doubt whatsoever that CH is the right choice. but anyone expecting him to knit together a league winning side from free transfers and a vastly reduced squad is living in cloud cookoo land. it is likely next seasonn we will have a squad much smaller and vastly inferior to last season. we will also be faced with potentially 15 to 20 more game next season. even if we are challenging by xmas, surely it will fall apar as it did last season because of fatigue and injuries.
there is a very distinct possibility that the plug could be pulled before the season commences. birmingham city will not be able to distance itself from the financial and possible criminal turmoil going on in Hong Kong. if Yueng Goes to Prison and the Parent group colapses, whatever is left of our club will just be sold of to the highest bidder in the same was it was many years ago when Ken Walden a scrap metal dealer from walsall bought it
It’s funny how argumentative we’ve all become. It’s clear as day to me that the cause is the ‘veil of secrecy’ that has descended over Saint Andrews, since Carson Yeung took over.
Simple fact is, though, that that’s the nature of business everywhere. Not just football, and not just in China. Remember how many people were ‘stunned’ when Woolworths went bust?
Sure there had been mutterings about finances, etc, but it’s not because their director was suspected of money laundering is it? It’s because the business didn’t function. From the little news we HAVE seen, whilst money IS an issue (what relegated club has no issues?), Carson Yeung has reiterated his support – far from what would be an understandable “looking after number one in a crisis” – and the Acting Chairman has been drawing up plans for what would happen in the unlikely event Yeung is found guilty (remember we’re told his accusation is not BIH-related, and he’s innocent until proven guilty).
Selling players for pennies? Roger Johnson was somewhere between £6m and £7m. Not pennies. Even if you want to make out he was worth more, it’s hardly a bargain basement signing! Some criticise us for picking up Bosman’s, yet can’t see that clubs like Wolves could do just that, too. Instead, they pay US £7m for a player who could end up crocked next week (see Essien).
I think there IS a possibility we’re getting into worse financial strife, but what help would it do typing negative messages on Boards? If we’re actually relatively OK, being negative can be quite harmful, dissuade potential players from signing, potential investors from investing, etc, etc.
I say being positive is the best option until the ‘worst’ is confirmed. We can’t afford to buy CY out, so why moan about him? It’s in his interests to keep us afloat. We’ve seemingly turned down offers for Scott Dann. If we were THAT desperate we would accept ALL offers….
Keep Right On
I suggest that the very negative scaremongers should read this before they slip their wrists as we are short of supporters as it is.
I don’t think it’s as clear cut as that. There is no denying that tax laws can be very complex the higher up the food chain you go; when you add in offshore companies, tax havens, loopholes and whatnot it requires proper forensic accountancy to work out exactly what is happening. Because of this, legal cases like Carson’s can often become very protracted, very drawn out and very technical – and when you’ve got twelve ordinary people as a jury, it can become very difficult for them to understand. Thus the prosecution may have a hard job nailing down beyond reasonable doubt that Carson is guilty of anything.
Furthermore, because these cases are protracted it means that for now, there is going to be no sanctions against Birmingham City from the footballing authorities as long as we keep paying our bills and the wages. There has been talk of a “fire sale” to sell players to fund our continued existence, but despite many stories in the newspapers regarding the transfer of our players we still have only sold two. If we were that close to going out of business you’d think that Blues would have done everything that they could to get money into the club – laying off people, making massive cut backs and selling players. We’ve not done that.
Please don’t commit HarriCarri yet!
When Carson Yeung first arrived in Birmingham I like most Blues fans thought that at last we have someone who will invest big time in our club.What we were hearing was positive.Yeung was introduced to us by the local media,both print and broadcast, as a Hong Kong billionaire.Yeung himself told us he would make £40 million available to buy players in the January 2010 window.I thought it was nonsense when he said that in 10 years Blues would be one the biggest clubs in Europe but hey we can all get carried away.The January sales came and went and we didn’t spend £40 million on players.Then it became clear that the ownership of the club was a little more complex than most of us first thought.The company that owns 98% of BCFC,Birmingham International Holdings while quoted on the Hong Kong Stock exchange and registered in the Caymen Islands.Who were the other people on the board-how much had been borrowed to buy the club? Fast forward to last October when the the company auditing the accounts for Birmingham International Holdings publicly stated that the club needed £10.5 million in order to ‘operate within agreed banking facilities’ and a further £17.5 for ‘general working capital and financial support’. While £28 million is a huge sum in the context of a Premiership football club with a billionaire owner it is peanuts-but a clear sign that Blues were having financial difficulties.Since then about £11 million has been raised but please do the maths and you will see that there is a problem here.Also when share dealing in Birmingham International Holdings was suspended in June the value of the shares had fallen sharply since the turn of the year.Now for those supporters who think that things are not that bad consider that we are about three weeks away from the start of the season and there is still no company willing to pay BCFC to have their logo on the team’s shirt.The director of commercial operations walked out three weeks ago. 9 of the 18 members of the squad for the Carling Cup final have left and the club has replaced them so far with 5 free transfers.It is unlikely that we will be able to pay any substantial amount for a player as clubs will want payment immediately.The word is out-Blues have financial problems.And we cannot just say that is what happens when you get relegated.It hasn’t happened at West Ham or Blackpool.Yes all of this is gloomy but it is the reality that we are in.As a Blues fan for over 50 years I am not happy about what is happening at our club and the sooner the current board go the better-yes we have recovered from problems in the past,this time I’m not so sure but I hope I am proved wrong
Sorry Ray you are wrong about the 40 million, that was spent. The question was raised at one of the supporters forums and explained how it worked out.
When he first came he said there would be a 20-40 million available but it was made clear that money was for the whole package. So for the fee, the wages et al. What he didn’t say was that 40 million would be spent at once.
KevB8ll
I think the point you make is an interesting one and in many ways exposes the board for what they are.The impression that Yeung and co gave was that £40 million would be spent in the January sales and most fans understood that to mean that £40 million would be spent on players-that is the money spent on the actual cost of a player alone,not his wages,image rights etc etc.The type of explanation given at the supporters forum is the same type of explanation that is frequently given by broadcasters such as Tom Ross and really it is an excuse and a weak one at that.The fact is that Yeung does not have the money to run a football club- not even one to meet the ambitions of sections of the Blues fan base.Sadly it is my experience that there are large sections of Blues fans who will happily accept everything they are told and totally ignore what is actually happening which is why we we are the club that we are.I am actually looking forward to the new season,I think Hughton is a talented coach and it will be interesting to see what he achieves.However what he will not achieve is promotion with his current resources and given his contract will no doubt be sacked at the end of the season.
@ Ray Power
If you thought Yeung was going to “invest” then you thought he was going to put money in and later on get his money back and more. I suspect that you and many, many Bluenoses thought he was going to “donate” and are angry because he’s actually “invested” and part of that involves managing costs to suit Championship income.
Strettonbluenose-apologies but I really don’t understand what point you are trying to make.Given that Yeung talked about making BCFC a ‘global brand’ I assumed he was at St Andrews because he would make money-I never thought he got involved with the club out of the goodness of his heart-the point I have tried to make is that he simply bought something he couldn’t afford.As for your final observation I think you will find that people who know about football finance identified the problem at St Andrews as the club having no contingency plan should they get relegated-as we know they have which is why the club is taking on free transfer players and off loading any player they can get money for.The word is out,the sales are on in Small Heath
Guys, guys, guys….Fact is our club is up s**t creek with just half a paddle as it rapidly approaches a precipice deeper than the drop from the Post office tower!!!…But we do have half a paddle and as any bloody Bluenose kens only too well, we have come back from worse in the past.
I have to say that I have a foot in both ‘camps’ here. Ray is absolutely right about where we could end up in the blink of an eye, but then we have to carry on supporting our club until we know exactly what happens after CY’s court case.
Whether we were in financial crisis or not as a consequence of relegation we were bound to lose several players and operate on reduced income etc… but the same players cost us our PL status
after coasting at the back end of the season so if they go hey-ho..we just get others and we will find out in due course if they can form a decent team.
McLeish did a reasonable job but watching blues play was ‘orrible sometimes (but I still got a tingle every single time I went to St Ans as I have done for over 40 years despite the rubbish footy) so perhaps it was time for him to move on. Hughton is not my first choice but he was in the top three so fair enough. Hopefully we will watch a better brand of football (with the odd boring 1-0 thrown in) and that is all we can hope for in the circumstances.
One thing though, BCFC will still be around in one form or another long after this affair has played out and I will still be with it as long as I’m sucking air, whatever!!
FACT. The club had 2 plans in place prior to relegation depending on what happened.
To say they didn’t plan for relegation as a possibility is NOT true.
FACT. There has been no fire sale, only 2 players have been sold.
FACT. ALL clubs that are relegated have to cut their cloth meaning that spending 10 million on aplayer is just sheer madness and bringing in good Bosmans / Frees / Loans make VERY good business sense.
Everything regarding the supposed financial meltdown is only media speculation. There is no hard fast evidence to say that the club is up any creek without any implement.
As I have said several times, until that happens, (which hopefully and I’m sure it won’t), there is no point being negative about it.
Someone mentioned the Ken Whelden days, we are no where near that – and if you think we are you are off your rocker.
The staff and players weren’t paid for weeks then, something that has not happened or even come close to happening.
This board have invested a lot in the day to day running of the club, something the previous administration neglected for years.